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Madeline
S.
Bill
Great
Basin
Indian
Archive
GBIA
047
Oral
History
Interview
by
Norm
Cavanaugh
April
24,
2015
Jiggs,
NV
Great
Basin
College
•
Great
Basin
Indian
Archives
1500
College
Parkway
Elko,
Nevada
89801
hDp://www.gbcnv.edu/gbia/
775.738.8493
Produced
in
partnership
with
Barrick
Gold
of
North
America
�GBIA 047
Interviewee: Madeline S. Bill
Interviewer: Norm Cavanaugh
Date: April 4, 2015
B:
My name is Madeline Bill. I was born and raised in Lee—South Fork, now. And I have
fourteen in my family, now, at present, but there’s seven are gone. It’s only six of us left
now. But my dad was well-known here in Elko, Jiggs, Wells, Montello, Starr Valley,
Lamoille—he was well-known here. But as my story goes, I’m telling you about
Tosawihi. White Knife is my Great-great grandfather. He was born and raised in Jiggs, so
Jiggs was his land. That’s what we were always told: this is our land. Nobody else’s.
Long time ago. Anyway, this is about my great-great grandfather and his sons and his
family, who all was born in Jiggs. Tosawihi was born in Ruby Valley, but he moved to
Jiggs because of the one guy. Muchach was his name. They didn’t get along. Muchach
took everything away from all the other people that was there that—the chiefs, all the
other chiefs that was in Ruby. He didn’t treat them right. He’d get everything for himself
and his clan. So that really didn’t work out good. So, Tosawihi moved over to Jiggs, and
that’s where he was born. His family was born there, and that’s where he was. And he
had lot of kids. But I’m not going to name them right now. Anyway, half of the people
that was there, the chiefs, moved to south, like to Battle Mountain, Austin, over down
that way. So, I don’t remember any of the chiefs’ names very good. But if I did, I’d write
it down, but I don’t remember any of it. But Tosawihi is called “White Knife.” He used to
get his flint out to north of Carlin, twenty-five miles north of Carlin. That was his quarry,
where he used to get his white flint to make white knives. They were twelve inches long;
somebody here in Battle Mountain has that one knife, but I can’t find it. I’ve been
looking, and looking, and asking, but nobody seem to know. But in the meantime, they
did a lot of things. My great-great grandfather Tosawihi was a hunter. He did all the
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hunting for all the tribal members and all the other chiefs. And that’s why our family has
born to hunt. I am, too. But that’s beside the point. [Laughter] The chiefs that were in
Ruby Valley—when the chiefs signed the treaty, it was signed in blood. People don’t
believe that, but people don’t understand: when the chiefs all didn’t sign the papers, and
their people that was with them didn’t sign the papers, they’d stick them in the hot water.
Taipos did that, the soldiers did that to them. They’d stick their heads in the hot water if
the chiefs didn’t sign the paper. So, that was a horrible thing for my dad and all the
others, old people used to remember that. They said it was awful and ugly. But right now,
they take all the things there was, and nothing left there. They said that they took—he
really didn’t do much for the Indians. I heard from the ones that happened in Ruby
Valley—I’m talking about Chief Te-Moak. The wagon trains used to come there to Ruby
Valley, and to Jiggs through Diamond Valley, through—the Tosawihis wanted things to
trade with the people from the wagon train. But the others, the white people, used to get
really greedy, and they said that all they was, was to take, take, take, and never give back.
You know that this is all going on and on right now. Tosawihi traveled all over, and his
home was in Jiggs, and he has remembered so many, even though his name was not in
many books, he was alive and defending the territory. I remember when my dad and the
ranches talked about it. They did. Grandpa Dan, who’s Tosawihi’s son, was my
grandfather. And the white knife quarry north of Carlin was his quarry, and this is where
he got his white knifes, his flint for his white knifes. Tosawihi and other chiefs of the TeMoak band went and got some of the Shoshones to get—got to Duck Valley, Owyhee.
That’s when they were first started the tribal thing up there for Shoshones. I remember
my grandpa and them used to talk about Captain Sam taking them up there. And I used to
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wonder, “Who’s Captain Sam?” And then I finally found out who Captain Sam was; he
was related to my mom’s, it was my mom’s great-uncle. So, that’s how I knew. They all
told me that. But there was a lot of other things that happened out in Jiggs. And they used
to send a lot of people from all over to Owyhee. I remember that. I used to go with the
people when I was really young. I remember traveling up there. And my great-great aunt
Rosie Yowell, Tsaawakan [6:39], used to be the one that, her and George, her husband,
she’d take me up there all the time. I traveled all over the country. And there’re
powwows at that time, we called powwows. And I traveled with them all over. But the
main thing that Tosawihi, when I go in the mountains where Tosawihis are, I can feel
their spirits with me. That’s why I always go out to Lee and to Jiggs where they’d been
camping. Then I know they’re there. I can feel them there. That’s the one thing I can do
real good: I sense things, and I can see things. Lot of people always say I’m a witch. No,
I’m not a witch. I just see things. And I believe they’re true, too, because I seen lot of
things that’s happened here. They should never happened. But long time ago, the
Tosawihi, our clan, used to be real strict about things. I don’t care what it was in. But
they’re like—like I said, they were good hunters. But there was always, the ones that I
worry a lot about is the little kids now. They don’t know what they’re talking about. You
know, most of the old people long time ago, even me, we have old Shoshone names. All
of us, even my own family members. They have Shoshone names, too. But I’m not going
say them. Mine’s—I don’t like my Newe name! [Laughter] I’ll tell you sometime. But
not going say it. But the old ones in Owyhee used to call me, the family members up
there used to call me by my name. There’s only two kids up there that I would say that to
“Shut up!” I always tell them. [Laughter] But it’s fun, though, you know? To know all
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these people that tell you things. And, the elders did not know what they thought we was
when it was wrong. It was said to be, the history book’s mostly wrong, in my belief, until
you hear from the old ones. Some of them really know what they’re talking about. So, the
history of Tosawihi, White Knife, is always there with me, because the old ones—I think
I hung around the old people more than I do the young ones. And they told me a lot of
things that—things that nobody else really knows about. And I have a cousin, live out in
Lee. I was asking him if he knew anything about Tosawihi, great-great grandfather and
them. He said no. He said he used to go in his grandma’s house, and she used to chase
him out when he ask her questions about the old things. And she used to chase him out of
the house, tell him, “Go outside and play! You don’t need to hear all this things.” Then I
said, “How come I’m the one that’s always there asking questions and they tell me, the
old ones?” He said, it’s probably I was nosy. “I like to find out things,” I told him. He
said, “Yeah, that’s it.” But I’m glad, you know? So I tried to ask him about lot of the
other things, too. He said he didn’t know. But there’s two ladies that just passed away
that knew all the old people. And they told me a lot of things about my side the family.
But I also know a lot things that happened long time ago. Some Newe people died, some
tried to tell what was done to them. It was an ugly thing that they did. Sometimes, I feel
like all the tribal and the other leaders, and what they went through to make the papers
sound real funny when they say something like that, and their leaders, the Indian agents,
were bad people. I can still see the old ones’ spirit about there—and that’s what I was had
tears about, because I see that. And I still, I think all the young in my family, that was not
the—most of the people, elders and young ones, do not believe that if this little ones were
told long time ago, they would getting older, that they are the young ones, they will have
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seen all this. The older ones that tribal leaders didn’t know what gold and silver and other
minerals was, in—while the thing that they know about now is not really good. All that
mining is doing is destroying our country now. Lot of people don’t believe it—it’s just
money, money, money now, you know? Money talks, and you know what else walks. I
don’t believe that. And I think we’d better take care of Mother Earth, because she’s
crying right now. Because we’re—including me and everybody else, is damaging this
country. We may not look at it like that, but it’s true. My dad used to tell me that. “Don’t
be crazy, doing crazy stuff,” he used to tell me. Things that my grandpa and other people
told me, was that some Shoshones around the Humboldt—around here—they’re part of
the Tosawihi clan, too, but they had red hair. I used to tell my dad, “How come they had
red hair?” He said, “I don’t know why they had red hair.” They used to live along the
Humboldt River, when the Humboldt River was really high then, long time ago. They
used to live along the river, and then he said that when the white man start coming in, he
doesn’t—him and his dad didn’t know what happened to all the Indians that used to live
along the river. He said, “I don’t know whether they were killed, or what, or if they just
disappeared.” That he didn’t know. And that’s what used to hurt my dad. Because they
were clan members, too, but I didn’t know them. My dad and them knew who they were,
but they never really thought about it, you know. But when they disappeared, he couldn’t
figure out why, or where they went. Long time ago. But, I don’t know. Tosawihi, I think
is, I thought my great-great grandpa was a big, great guy. Man, he did a lot of things. I
think I kind of take up after him. Very forward, and I say it like it is, and if people don’t
say what I say, that’s their problem. They have to deal with it, not me. If it’s the truth, I’ll
know it. So, I’m like my great-great grandfather. And my grandpa was like that. My dad
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was also like that, but he was always quiet. But this is all to my great-great grandfather.
He was one of the best guys I’ve ever—nobody knows what happened to grandpa there,
but all this time, I wish I’d asked questions about grandpa. And one time, they told—they
called him “Motsontsuku.” [14:01] Motsontsuku. The old man. My grandpa. They called
him Motsontsuku. Not the great-great grandpa, but my grandpa. My dad’s dad. They
called him Motsontsuku. Tosawihi, Grandpa, used to travel all over the country. He went
around Jiggs to Mound Valley, Owyhee, Battle Mountain; I mean, he used to go to Fort
Washakie, Wyoming, too. Land, nobody can take this away from you. I can’t believe this,
is what we’re always been told. But long time ago, in Lee and Jiggs, there used to be lot
of deer and bear. What do you call it? Those big-horned—elk. There used to be a lot of
that. There used to be a lot of trees there, I guess the old people used to say, in Jiggs and
Lee. More trees than it is now. Used to be lot of trees, and that’s where all these things
used to hang out. That’s where they used to hunt a lot, because of that. Now, the wildlife
conservation don’t like that, because now I notice in the paper, they’re trying to do
something stupid now with it. I don’t understand this. You know, when those guys signed
the treaty in Jiggs—because there’s a—I think it’s a mile or two miles from Jiggs, south.
When you go into the canyon from Harrison Pass, you go right. And down there, there’s
two big rocks there. That’s where they signed the treaty. And they used to talk about how
the Indians were treated long time ago by the white man. How they were treated when
they didn’t sign the treaty. And they used to have lot of fights over that. And Tosawihi
couldn’t stand that no more, so he took his clan members over the hill back to Jiggs. And
that’s where he’s been all his life. So, really bad, long time ago. I try not to think about
the bad things, but I was glad that he was my great-great grandfather. [Laughter] Not
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from the old; you should tell the young boys that if you go hunting—and this comes from
great-great grandpa on down, you know, from way down, to my dad and them—he used
to tell the boys, because like I said the hunting runs in my family, my side the family. So.
And they used to tell the boys, “When you go hunting, don’t hang around or mess around
with your partner. It will zap your energy!” [Laughter] And they used to tell them that,
you will not—your hunting, when you kill something, will be all bloody. If you kill
something, there’ll be lot of blood in your killing. So, this means that’s—so when you
using gun, don’t let any kid or woman touch your guns, wherever they’re propped up at.
But that’s one of the things that we learned long time ago from the old ones. Never do
that. You know, I try to tell the people that, the boys nowadays. I tell them when they’re
going out. Especially, too, when they’re going out on their athletic things like basketball,
football, or something; if they’ve got a girlfriend, don’t mess around with her night
before. Because I found that to be true: it zaps your energy. The boys, I noticed that.
They ain’t got no energy to play. It’s all up here. But, people don’t understand that. I
don’t know why. [Laughter] It’s crazy! But like I said, the old man was real good sport.
There’s a lot of things, you know, that I have to separate some of these things that I had
written, because some of them are from way back, some are up-to-date, some are here
and there. So, I’ve got to separate all this. But I could do a lot of things on it. But it
never—never do anything wrong. If the old people told you long time ago, “Don’t ever
do anything wrong against”—the one thing I was taught when I was a little kid, from my
great-great aunts, and my aunts, and my uncles way back—I was little, maybe nine or
ten. Maybe eight. I used to be told, “Don’t ever do anything wrong to your own family,
or the people you’re living with, or the people you’re good friends with. Don’t do
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anything wrong to them, because it’ll come back on you three or four times worse than
you got now.” I see all the kids nowadays, too, from way back when, in my group area,
the people that’s raised with me out in Lee. Most of them don’t know how to talk
Shoshone. It kind of gets to me, because I try to tell them in Shoshone what to do, and
what I’m thinking about what we should do: they don’t understand me. They say, “Huh?”
I can’t believe this! I’m kind of stupefied by that. Because that’s the first thing you learn
when you’re with Shoshone parents. I always teach our kids Shoshone language, first
thing. Because my dad used to tell us, even my uncles used to tell us that, “When you’re
around Indians, your own tribal people, talk Indian with them. Talk Shoshone with them.
But if you’re with white people, talk white English. Either way.” That’s how I was
taught. Never, never talk Indian when you’re with some other people, you know?
Because right away, their mind always go, say—they’ll say, like, “Oh, they’re talking
about me, making fun of me.” Either way, English or Shoshone. You talk about
somebody like that, talk in front of them like that, that’s the first thing they say, “Oh,
they’re making fun of me.” But I’ve always been taught not to do that. So, I’ve been
teaching the kids in my family, “Don’t do that. If you know how to talk Shoshone, talk
Shoshone when you’re with the Shoshone people. But never talk English when you’re
with them. When you’re with the white people, talk white people—talk English.
Otherwise, they won’t understand what you’re saying.” Because people have a tendency
to have a mind saying, “You’re making fun of me.” That’s not right. So, I’ve been telling
the kids that. I talk to a lot of the kids. The reason why I don’t go anywhere is because
it’s the teenagers, especially teenagers, come around and ask me all kinds of questions:
about sex, about how babies are born, what this and that, and everything else. And I get
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kind of, “Duh,” You know? But then I figured, it’s best thing for me to do is come out,
straight out and tell them like it is. And their mouth will drop open, say, “Huh?” I said,
“It’s the truth.” So they’ll come back and ask me again. So they all call me “Auntie
Madeline,” even the boys and the girls, lot of the teenagers come, “Auntie Madeline, now
what do I do about this and that?” So I tell them, just come out straight out and say,
“Okay, this is how you do it. This what you say. But don’t think about—when you get
into drinking and drugs, look at the other people. Whatever they are doing, don’t do it.
You see what a mess is their life. Don’t do that.” So, I’ve been really, make a lot of crazy
stuff with the kids. Really make me laugh. I know the things that I’ve learned, the
younger kids can learn from that. Like I said, I’ve been raised around the old seniors, and
the old people around Lee. So, I had the pleasure of knowing all my aunts, especially the
one that I’ve written about. That one with the quilt down there? She was eighty-nine
years old. We used to go fishing. Ernest Mose’s mom. Anyway, we used to go fishing
with—every weekend, I used to walk up through the canyon, up to the house, and her and
I’d go fishing. And one time—one time, I was kind of scared of her to go down there
fishing, you know? Because the house was downhill, the road, so it went to the fishing
hole there, I mean the river. So—and I ask Ernest, I said, “Ernest, do you have a rope?”
He looked at me like, “What?” I said, “Don’t ask me questions. You have a rope?” He
said, “Yeah.” So he gave me a nice thin-lined rope. So, we got—Maggie and I got down
to the river, and I tied the rope around her waist! [Laughter] And I’d tie the rope to a tree
where we were fishing. And she said, “What’d you do that for?” “So you won’t fall in. I
won’t have no trouble, you know, try to catch you. So I got the rope now, that’ll help me
keep you up.” [Laughter] Oh, she never laughed so loud in her life! Oh, god, that was
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funny. And I always remember that, tying her to a tree so she won’t fall in the river—
because the river was real high then. And I always remember that. That was my best time
with my aunts. And then, Aunt Marie, of course, we’ve all had lot of time with her. So
we’re always there with her. So, my dad just thought we were crazy. Getting back to my
great-great grandfather Tosawihi: when they signed the treaty, I think about two or three
years after the treaty was signed, when they had a big powwow in Ruby Valley with
Tümoke and all the, I think there was five—yeah, five chiefs were still left there. All the
others went down south. And grandpa was the only one on this side of the mountain. But
when they were having a powwow over there, they were talking about things, and the
wagon train came second time, two times a year they were coming through. And then,
they were bringing lot of things. And Grandpa—I guess those guys would give, divide
the things that the wagon train came with. But no, the other old man from Ruby, he’s the
one that got real greedy and he took everything. And my grandpa said, “I’m not going to
help you do anything no more. I’ve had it with you.” You know? So, when my grandpa
and them stayed overnight in Ruby, they, that old man, his clan members captured
Tosawihi. And that night, they cut his tongue out. Yeah. They cut his tongue out. And he
suffered a lot, and he couldn’t chew. He couldn’t eat anything. All he did was drink lot of
liquids. And the old people used to give him lot of things to drink—you know, all kinds
of medicine plants to drink. But still, he couldn’t eat. So, within a year, he started losing
lot of weight. And then, I can’t remember what year he died. But anyway, he passed
away then. He was a deaf-mute for a whole year because he couldn’t talk. That’s why I
felt awful about that clan people on the other side of the mountain. It’s terrible, the way
they treated each other. I know my great-great grandfather Tosawihi would have never
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done that to anybody. No. He was a mean person, but he’s never been that mean to
people. You know? There’s a lot of things he did that sounded terrible, but when you
really look at it, I guess that’s the way it was long time ago. You can’t think about the
things that they’ve done. It’s compared to what is doing today with the people, the
Indians. It’s still going on, but it’s not with the same tribal members. It’s with the white
people it’s going on now, and it bothers me. And I just, every night I pray that, “God,
please shake everybody up. Shake everybody up and make them do right.” I don’t know
how—but I’ve seen some things that’s happening, been good. And, but anyway, he
was—that’s all, he was mutilated, my great-great grandpa, when this guy, his clan
members, captured him. And that’s when they cut his tongue out. That’s how Grandpa
died. And I remember Race Harney was out there with him, too. Race Harney is fullblood Shoshone, too. Just like my grandpa and my whole family is.
C:
So when the white people were first coming, or the Europeans, traveling through
Shoshone country, was there any skirmishes, or was there any fights between them and
the wagon trains, or—?
B:
Yeah!
C:
Do you know of any of those stories?
B:
Especially, yes, my dad used to tell me—Grandpa, my dad’s dad, used to tell us about
the, in Diamond Valley. Because, you know, from Jiggs, you go through Diamond Valley
to Battle Mountain. In the Diamond Valley, I guess Tosawihi’s family was living—
because they were nomads, they traveled all over, and camped wherever there was good
fishing and good hunting. Wherever, they’d camp. But they were camped in Diamond
Valley, I guess, and the wagon train try to cheat Tosawihi and his family about lot of
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things. What they wanted was guns and shells so they can—because they finally got the
nerve to ask how did they shoot with that and kill something. So, the wagon train people
are the ones who showed them how to shoot that. It wasn’t the cavalry. Cavalry was just
there to kill. But the wagon train people are the ones that showed them how to do all that.
So, a year after they did, showed them how to do that, they brought some guns and
ammunition for them. Then they tried it, and that, it was funny, too. Because when they’d
shoot the gun, it’d knock ‘em silly! [Laughter] And that’s how I learned. But it was
funny! But they were—they were okay, but my great-great grandfather wanted things that
they can supply, but the taibos didn’t want anything about, you know, because they had,
the Newe—Newene—had corn, they had tepa, and let’s see—whole bunch of other
things. Yampa. They had all that and a whole bunch of other things. I can’t remember all
the things. I got it on paper here, but anyway, they tried—all they wanted was guns, and
the wagon train people didn’t give them no guns, and they tried to pay them with gold,
twenty gold pieces. And Tosawihi picked them up and threw them back at the wagon
train. He said, “This is not what I asked for. I wanted guns and ammunition.” I said,
“Gee!” [Laughter] Real aggressive, that old buzzard! Anyway, they finally got it
overwith. They only gave them two guns. I guess that was all right for next year. Next
year was all right, little better. Then they start bringing them flour, sugar. And then, they
didn’t know what flour was. They knew what sugar was, because it was sweet. They
didn’t know what flour was. [Laughter] Anyway, when the wagon train came through
Ruby, by Cherry Springs where the main trail is, there were all the six other chiefs, and
my great-grandfather, and the other guy from Ruby. They’re all over there. They’re all
camping in that area where there’s a real flat and smooth place. They’re all camping,
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waiting for the wagon train. And when the wagon train came, they gave them some flour.
But they didn’t show them how to use the flour. You know how the Indians are, they’re
all funny about trying things out. They’re scared to try it, you know? So, the one old lady
took one of the sack of flours, and she opened it up, and she threw the flour in the air.
Then she was covered with white. Flour all over! [Laughter] Then all of the sudden, all
the Indians, they’re all covered with white. You see, all the flour’s wasted because
nobody showed them what to do with it. They thought it was something that they can
spruce up with. So all the Indians were all white, running around with the flour all over
them. [Laughter] I said to my Grandpa, really laughing, he goes, “I should talk in
Newene, now you”— [Laughter] He said, “We didn’t even know what that was for.” So,
that was the most funny part. There’s a real lot of crazy stories they got to hear this.
Anyway, that’s what they did with the flour. So, they never learned how to cook with the
flour. That was the end of that story. Then, the next year, they came again. The wagon
train came again. And then, this time they brought bloomers for the women, shorts for the
men. [Laughter] Okay? And still, the Indians didn’t know what they were for! And so,
then the wagon train, it had soldier guys. The soldier guy told one of the guys to strip
down and show them what the shorts are for. And the guy, I guess that one guy, he
stripped down, and tried putting his shorts on, and these Indian ladies were looking at
him—“Oh my goodness! Pian wewe naakkan!” [32:30] Says, “It’s really hanging!”
[Laughter] I just laughed! Those crazy people! Crazy people. And then, he finally
showed them how, but then, the Indians, you know how—they won’t strip. So, what they
did was, they put the shorts over their, whatever they had on. And that’s how they were
running around. And then they were trying to show the old ladies how to put the
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bloomers on. The old ladies put it on over their clothes. And that’s how they were all
running around. I said, “Oh, my goodness sakes!” You know, I guess it was really funny
long time ago. They was crazy people. Well, not crazy, but you know, they thought that
was best way to do it. So, like, Indians don’t like to strip anyway, as far as I know. I don’t
know why the Shoshone around here don’t believe this, but I was told, long time ago, by
the old ones, you know what the gay people are? You know what the gay people are? The
guys? And the women? I guess when they used to find out that’s how they were, they
used to take them people, and kill them, and then bury them wherever they want to bury
them. And then they come back and tell the people, family to that people—the person
they killed, because he was gay, or whatever—they’d come and tell them that he just took
off, and he probably won’t come back anymore. But they didn’t tell the families that they
killed him because he was gay. “Ooh,” I said. When my dad and the old ones used to tell
me that, I said, “Ooh! That’s ugly!” They said, “Well, that’s how they were long time
ago.” We have gays in the families all over. Lot of the tribal members have gays in their
family. And that’s what they dealt with, I guess, long time ago, too. So we’ve had that in
the Indian tribe, too. Years. And way back when. But nobody’s ever said—I think people
were ashamed of it, you know? But they didn’t want to say nothing. I knew about it long
time ago when I was a little kid. Because the old ones used to talk about nice tenesen
[34:39] See what they’re talking about? That’s how it was, I guess, long time ago too,
see? I mean, that’s sad part of that story. So I don’t know who—but like I said, I know lot
of family members around here that has gay kids. So. But, it’s not that way anymore.
They’re free and do what they want to do now, so that’s all right. I don’t mind that.
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C:
How about in the case of twins, and triplets? Was there anything that anybody did to
them, or did they even have twins or triplets back then?
B:
Yeah, they did, and they had to get rid of one, because it was a bad omen, whatever you
want to call it. If you had more than that, you were cursed. Isn’t that awful? When I think
about all of those things that the old people used to say and do… But I guess that’s the
way they were, years ago. You know, long time ago? I guess in a way, I don’t blame
them; that’s how they were raised. They believed in what they did, like we believe in
what we do now. So, you can see, it doesn’t really matter. Like I said, I’m not really into
that kind of stuff anyway. I like funny stuff! [Laughter] Oh, and then, before Grandpa,
before they did that to Grandpa, great-great grandpa Tosawihi, then when they had a big
camp in Jiggs—you know how they, white people talk about UFOs and them aliens?
And, I guess, when they were—because the river comes down, the little ditch comes
down from Jiggs, from the mountain, all the way down. On this side of Jiggs, there’s a
big, flat place. That’s where they used to camp. There was no ranches or nothing
anywhere, but the big, flat place, that’s where they all camped. And I guess Greatgrandpa one time said, “Oh, my goodness! Look at this white, real silver car coming
down from the sky!” And everybody looked: there’s a big, round spaceship. I guess
there’s—it wasn’t really round, it was like an oval-type, you know? Came down, I guess
land in front of them. And they all got stunned, because they didn’t know what the heck
was going on! [Laughter] So Grandpa, I guess, says, “What is this?” And the others said,
I guess—Race was still there, too. He was young guy then, at that time out there. And he
wanted to know why all these things were happening. But then, when that thing landed,
they—you know how, when you get an interesting thing, you just stand there looking and
�
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say, “Now, what next?” You wonder what’s going on. Anyway, when that spaceship
landed in front of them—there was two spaceships in front of them. And Tosawihi
wanted to know what was going on. But they weren’t mean to them. They helped them
with things, the space people. Then when the space men came out of the spaceships, they
had big, round heads. Real—as tall as I am, I guess. And they didn’t have no clothes on,
nothing. I don’t know how they could come out with that—he said they had kind of
slanted eyes, kind of round, slanted. Kind of oval eyes. And had little holes in their nose,
nothing. Just holes here. And a big round mouth, said. And they didn’t understand them,
but they were using sign language, I guess! The aliens or whatever they were. [Laughter]
I guess they got along real good with them. That was the first time I ever heard of aliens
being here on the country, on this side the country. And I said, “Whoa!” But they were
fast people. And then, I always wonder why my dad and his family—we always
wondered about that—I wonder if my dad and his family was all space aliens, too. You
know what I’m saying? Because they—because Grandpa used to be at one place, and
then he’s there another place in no time flat. People ask—we’re waiting for him, he’s
already there. That’s the way my dad was, like that. He’d—the people’d tell him, “Percy,
aren’t you going to a meeting?” He’d say, “Yeah, I’ll be there.” Before they even got to
the meeting, he’s already there waiting for them. Now, how does that happen? I don’t
understand this. I’ve been trying to get that straight out, I always wonder, “What the heck
is this?” You know? I always wonder about that. Why—his brothers and sisters were all
like that, too. They used to travel, but they—I don’t know if it’s time travel or what it is.
But they’re already there when the people tell them, “Are you going to come?” Then my
dad’ll say, “Yeah, I’m coming. Let me finish this first.” And then he’s already there
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waiting for them. Especially here at that rock house where they used to have meetings.
He’d be out there shoveling the ditches and whatever, irrigating. And then they stop, and
then they’ll say, “Percy, aren’t you going to the meeting?” He said, “Yeah, I’ll be there.”
They’re still going, the people are still going, he’s already there waiting for them,
standing waiting for them. Now, how do you explain that? [Laughter] I try to think about
that: “How in the world did he do that?” You know? That’s a lot of people who say that:
“Your dad was a time-traveler.” I say, “I don’t know what that means.” I really don’t. But
that’s the way my family is, like that, too. You know? It’s crazy! But I’m glad we’re like
that.
Before you get to Diamond Valley, on the other side of Jiggs, there’s a big, muddy pond.
There’s like a swamp-type thing. And one time, we went over—me and my dad, and all
the old people, went over there, and then they told me—me and my brothers, other sisters
ask, “Why are we stopping?” So, they told us that “There’s a Water Babies live here.”
They told me, I said, “Huh? Water Babies? Now what?” Water Babies! And we stopped
there, and my dad said, “There’s Water Babies live here in this water. At nighttime you
can hear them crying.” Like, [41:16] Tuu eteepittseh ohaatsi, you know? Little baby
crying? So, that’s how they sound. So we stopped there and camped there, and you can
hear that—“Oooh,” like little babies crying. So awful! [Laughter] Sounding cute, but you
can feel this sense of, sort of like an evil thing, you know? They’re—I don’t know how to
explain that, but it sounded really terrible. The babies sounded cute when they cried, but I
don’t know what was behind all that. Anyway, he used to tell us that, “Don’t leave your
pitsi out of your clothes, because they’ll attach themselves to you.” “En’ee!” I says.
[Laughter] That’s some of the stories long time ago. Crazy people!
�
[Audio from recording concludes at 41:59, though video continues]
[End of recording]
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Western Shoshone Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories of Western Shoshone elders collected by the Great Basin Indian Archive.
Description
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Oral histories compiled
Creator
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Great Basin Indian Archive, in partnership with Barrick Gold of North America
Source
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GBIA Oral History Collections
Publisher
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Great Basin Indian Archive
Contributor
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2006-2015
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
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Norm Cavanaugh
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Madeline S. Bill
Location
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South Fork Reservation (Lee), NV [Bill residence]
Transcription
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http://humanities.gbcnv.edu/omeka/admin/files/show/516
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DVD, MP4, and AVI format
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00:49:04
Dublin Core
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Title
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Madeline S. Bill - Oral history (04/26/2015)
Subject
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Oral history interview with Madeline S. Bill, Western Shoshone from South Fork Reservation (Lee), NV on 04/26/2015
Description
An account of the resource
<p>Madeline S. Bill was born and raised in Lee, South Fork Reservation and was one of fourteen children. She begins her oral history by telling the audience about her father and great-great grandfather Tosawihi who was also born in the Lee area. She talks about how Tosawihi used to gather white chert from north of Carlin, NV. She also speaks about the wagon trains and Ruby Valley Treaty (1863), and the events that occurred therein. She also speaks about the stories that the elder Shoshone people would talk about with her.<br /> <br />Interviewed by Norm Cavanaugh</p>
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Great Basin Indian Archives
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Great Basin Indian Archives - GBIA 047
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Great Basin Indian Archives
Date
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04/26/2015 [26 April 2015]; 2015 April 26
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Norm Cavanaugh [interviewer]; Andrew Moore [GBIA]; Scott A. Gavorsky [VHC]; James Hedrick [GBIA/VHC]; University of Utah SYLAP [streaming video]; Great Basin College; BARRICK Gold of North America
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Non-commercial scholarly and educational use only. Not to be reproduced or published without express permission. All rights reserved. Great Basin Indian Archives © 2017.
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Format
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mp4
Language
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English; some Shoshone
Community
Crossroads
folktale
GBIA
Jiggs
Muchach
Ruby Valley
Ruby Valley Treaty 1863
Shoshone
South Fork Reservation
Story
Tosawihi
wagon trail
-
https://humanities.gbcnv.edu/omeka/files/original/abc00dd3e903f4af26aaba83177a1d8f.jpg
0ae5414661b35f12e9f8d2469538bd7c
https://humanities.gbcnv.edu/omeka/files/original/bd247cf121495632c0ea8fa76c2674cb.pdf
05234f9df98be25a0109ec99fe2e9c2f
PDF Text
Text
Vivian
Cinnabar
Great
Basin
Indian
Archive
GBIA
022
Oral
History
Interview
by
Norm
Cavanaugh
November
24,
2009
Elko,
NV
Great
Basin
College
•
Great
Basin
Indian
Archives
1500
College
Parkway
Elko,
Nevada
89801
hCp://www.gbcnv.edu/gbia/
775.738.8493
Produced
in
partnership
with
Barrick
Gold
of
North
America
�GBIA 022
Interviewee: Vivian Cinnabar
Interviewer: Norm Cavanaugh
Date: November 24, 2009
VC:
That’s how they were. They were enemies. All of them enemies with Paiutes, and all the
different tribes. They were enemies. And so, but these Shoshones around this area
worked together, and then so, they—
NC:
So do you remember what band of Shoshones your family came from?
VC:
In this area, we were Western Shoshones. Uh-huh. And then, but my dad was part
Bannock. It must have been a big pokkombe [1:35] when they got together. What was the
question you asked me? I don’t know where they came from. Knew it was from that
people around there. They just roamed around down in this area. Because those other
people were the enemy, you know. And then, so, so most of them, they were settled in
Ruby Valley. And all the people out here didn’t mind Shoshones. And so when the
government made the treaty, and then they talked to the people, the head mans, you
know? Do you know that that was, that was the same thing that’s going on. They was,
they were fighting with the white people—like ranchers that had lands, and everything.
They used to have all kinds of businesses. They were fighting with them, and stealing
their cattle, and killing the cattle and horses, and families. So that’s the reason why—it
wasn’t only that way here. It was all over. And then so they negotiate. They say they
came, and decided to make a treaty, and talk to the people, so that won’t be going on.
And then, so they had this meeting at Ruby Valley. And some people felt, well, it’s good.
Government was going to help them. Because lot of people were poor, and they were
having hard time. They’re just roaming, living off of the land. This is what I’m saying.
And they were having hard time, so government told them that they were going to help
them if they signed that treaty, and made reservations for them. And some people didn’t
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like it. They didn’t want to go under the government. And some people want it. They
said, “Well, good. They’re going to help us,” live someplace where the government will
give them reservation. And so lot of people didn’t want to go under government. But my,
it would be my great-great-grandpa, Buck. His name was Buck. He was there. And then
some of the other men, too, they talked it over. They said, well, it’s good idea to make
that treaty, this agreement. So that way we won’t be killing each other, and stuff like that.
And so, so then, Buck… So then, Buck, my dad’s—it would be his uncle, I guess. He
agreed about the reservation, because his people were just roaming here, and they were
going to die at the time. So Buck made—and the others, uncle he agreed to sign on it.
And they saw the other man come in the area, you know, Shoshones. And then they
decided they wanted help, too. Some of the people didn’t want to go under the
government, so. The people that want to go, they had joined with Buck. With the Western
Shoshones. And this was the, they want to go that way. Go under the government. Lot of
people in this area didn’t want to go under government, so they stayed here. Stayed in the
towns, and, like, lived along the tracks, here. So the government gave them land over
there, west of Carlin. Over here at Carlin, down here? On the other side of the tunnels,
that’s where. On, that would be east of the tunnels there. Someplace in the mountains
back there. Kind of desert country they said, they went. They couldn’t make any living
off of that land. What they want the mens to do? And so the men got together, and they
say, “No, we didn’t, we want a place where we could live off of the land.” And you
know. “This place is poor. No water, no green grasses,” stuff like that for their cattle and
horses. And so they talked. They talked at length. When they roamed, they know the
area. So they sent to that, like where they—it wasn’t called Duck Valley at that time. But
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anyway, they knew that place, one of the places where they roamed. And they went back
and talked to the government. So the government agreed, because they were having hard
time out here in Carlin, trying to make a living. So then they got together, so the
government agreed to give them that place there, which is Duck Valley now. Because it
had all wild animals, and all kinds of game to eat, and fowl, sage hens, and all them kind
of… And Owyhee River had lot of fish in it. Salmon, fish coming up from the Snake
River. And the mountains. They had lot of trouts and stuff like that. And so they went up
to that place, if they could have it. So the government agreed with them. So then, they—
that’s when they moved to Duck Valley, the people.
NC:
So did they move—how many Shoshones were there?
VC:
I don’t know. Quite a few. Because there are all different kind of Shoshones here. But the
whole thing was they called themselves Western Shoshones—but with Buck.
NC:
So did they round up all the Shoshone bands in this area and move them up to Owyhee?
VC:
Lot of the people didn’t want to go with Buck. So that’s how it got started in Owyhee.
That’s how it got, then they moved. Lot of people moved to go to Owyhee and have a
good living there. But the others stayed around here. What else?
NC:
So is that, is Buck, is he the same person they used to call Captain Buck?
VC:
At that time they signed the treaty, they went there, but just headmen in the tribe. But his
name wasn’t Buck. But later on, when they went under the government, they had to work
with the government. And so, different men worked under the government as scouts.
Scouts. Found them all over there in Owyhee. Yeah, the scouts that went with the
government. And that’s when they changed his name to Captain Buck. If you go to the
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cemetery, you’ll find lot of the mens there, lot of the men’s names, “Captain.” Like
Captain Charles and all those guys. So he was one of those headmen over there.
NC:
Did you want to go ahead and read what you have written down?
VC:
That’s about all I have it wrote down… Oh, yes! Another thing that these people around
here, when we used to go to the Shoshone meetings, they kept blaming—it says now,
“Why did they get these men to sign on the treaty, when they don’t even know how to
write?” [Laughter] Nobody was educated at that time, they didn’t like that, these people
around here. Because nobody knew how to do it. And the people, the men that sign the,
name, Indian names, they were long Indian names. [__inaudible at 12:54__]. So they
thumb print, they had to make thumb prints, that’s how they sign on it. These are on
somebody, fixed it. But Earl Crum and Beverly, they have those names. They know how
to pronounce a lot of them. I don’t even know how to pronounce it, put that name. That’s
long Indian names and stuff. I thought they wrote down what their names, was thumb
prints. And the man, the government mans in Washington, they signed on the treaty, too.
Because they’re all there.
NC:
Do you remember what the treaty said, or what the agreements were?
VC:
I don’t know. I can’t remember. But it says, what do they call that…? Peace—what’s the
other one?
NC:
Peace and Friendship Treaty?
VC:
Yeah. Peace and Friendship, because they get together now. Then they won’t be fighting
anymore. So the Indians agreed with the white guys that they could go ahead and be free
to do whatever they want, like mining, and live in towns and whatever. So, and then
there’s—they don’t make happen. They having trouble. They agreed on that one. So
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they call it “Friendship.” It made peace. Peace among each other. And then, so later on,
yeah, the government did help them with their food, and living too. Yeah. Yeah, they, I
don’t know why they brought the supplies in, but the supplies come out, to come here,
and different men from Owyhee, they had army wagons. They gave them army wagons to
come on, and they come after the supplies. Pick up the supplies, food supplies, and took it
back to Owyhee to distribute among the Indians. It took three days. Three days to get
here from there. My dad was one of them, with some other guys. I think the men took
turns going after supplies here. And out to Mountain Home too. But I don’t know where
the supplies come from. But that’s what they used to do. And then, different men,
different people said how their grandparent tell them that if they were going to go off the
reservation, they had to get permission. At that time, if they want to go to Mountain
Home, they had to get permission from the agency, or wherever they want to go—go off
the reservation, they had to get permission. Because they were under government. That’s
when they got those scouts. They called them “scouts.”
NC:
So the scouts worked with the Indian people there in Duck Valley? The scouts worked
with them in helping them get permission if they wanted to go someplace?
VC:
Yes. That’s what the scout does. Scouts, you know, they were kind of protecting the
people from enemies, too. Mmhm.
NC:
So, do you remember what year that was, when Duck Valley or the Owyhee reservation
was set up?
VC:
No. No, no. I don’t remember then. Mm-mm.
NC:
So was the reservation first set up for just the Western Shoshone?
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VC:
Mmhm. There were a lot of Shoshones, but that’s what the Western Shoshones… Long
time ago, they used to go to Shoshone meetings here and there. And the people,
committee, or whatever they are, they decided to call our area “Western Shoshone.” But
later on, it spread to here. So when people in this area, they have different dialects,
Shoshones, they’re all Shoshones, but that changed. Some of the words, different
pronunciation, some of the people that don’t hear it don’t understand that. Different
words that they don’t use. Yeah.
NC:
So did your family just speak Shoshone in your household when you were small, growing
up?
VC:
Yeah. We used Shoshone. Well, they had a Presbyterian church there in Owyhee for a
long time. And that’s only one church, the Presbyterian church, which is still there. And
they helped the people. Just, like, going to school, teaching, teaching them people who go
to church. There’s quite a few people there from Owyhee that go to church, and they
taught them, taught the children, how to talk English and all that stuff. Educate them.
Then, that’s long time ago, they had schools. They call it boarding schools, where the
kids, children went to school, up there where the Mormon church is sitting now. That was
where the children went to boarding school, there. They’d go home summertime, you
know just like the regular schools. Had vacations. My mother was the cook up there.
[Laughter] Yeah, and the children, that’s where they went. That’s where they learned
their school. They didn’t have the, like, Beginners, Head Start, and all that stuff. You just
went to school. First grader. You know, went to first grade. Because they had teachers,
teachers coming and teaching them. Some of these children that live in Owyhee, they go
home. They get to go home weekends, too. Vacation times.
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NC:
But they stayed at the school? Is that why they called it a boarding school?
VC:
Yes. And that’s where they stay…
NC:
Did you stay at the school?
VC:
Long time ago. [Laughter]
NC:
So did you learn English at the school, or did you already know how to speak English?
VC:
Yeah, I did. You know, like I said, Presbyterian church. That’s where we went. We
almost lived there! [Laughter] Almost living there.
NC:
So did a lot of Indian children go to school, at the boarding school? Or, just some of
them?
VC:
No, they’re all there.
NC:
And how far up did they go to school there? How long did they go to school? Was there,
like, a high school?
VC:
Just like, no, they went, there was no high school. I think they went to sixth grade. They
had day schools, they called it. After there was no more boarding schools, they go to,
they called it day school. They had schools in different areas. Like, in our area, they went
to school, our school was Number 2. We went, we had to walk to school. Rain or shine,
wintertime. We had to go and walk to school. Go around the school, like this. And then
the people around the Boney Lane now, they call it, that area, they went to, theirs was
Number 1 school. And they walked to school, too, right there. That school was where
Nathan Bacon’s house is. In that area. And where the Thomases live. The Toms, they
call it Thomases now. And Number 1 was built down there at Miller Creek. That’s where
they went, the Paiutes. Yeah. That’s how they did it after they closed the other thing. But
it only went to fifth grade there. First to fifth grade. You had to walk, walk to school. And
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then later on, I don’t know, maybe 19—early 1920s, I think—somewhere in there, they
build a public school, they called it, and it was built over there where the main office is. I
mean, it used to be, because they built that tribal building down there. That’s where the
public school. Then some of the employees’ children went to the school there. And then
some of the other people, like Elaine Ethan—I know where it is, it was way down where
George Rocher’s house is. Down in there, it’s close to the—that’s where she came to
school. Sometimes she walked to school, sometimes she rode on horse to school. And
then, on our side is, I guess the Premos was the ones last. Like Laura, and all her family.
Tom Premo’s children. They went just to public schools. Because I guess maybe their
parents thought that that was a better school than the day schools. And then they used to
walk to school—they walked to town. That’s where the, where is that, now? That big
building across the road from—it used to be the courthouse. That big building there.
That’s where they go to public school. That’s where they went. Some of them.
NC:
So did the public school have a high school?
VC:
I think, I don’t know, maybe to the eighth grade. Yes. Because several of the children
were sent to Stewart Indian School in Carson City, and some to Sherman Institute in
Riverside, California. And some went to—what did they call it?—[the] Indian school in
Phoenix, Arizona. That’s where they went. And so, I guess maybe the day school went as
far as the sixth grade. But when they took the day schools away, and people were going
into town where the old school was, right there by that tribal gym—by the old tribal gym,
in that building. Right in there is where the school was. That’s where we got transferred
to, after they closed the day schools. And first, when it started, when we went over there,
we went to the eighth grade. And we didn’t have any transportation to go over there to go
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to school. And we rode on trucks. [Laughter] We rode, went to school on trucks! Until
they finally got us buses. And then, we went with them. So we all went there. It was like
a T, that building. From first to eighth grade, it went. And then in eighth grade,
[__inaudible at 29:08__] school. Lot of us, lot of the children went. Most of them went to
Stewart, at Carson City. But I went to Sherman Institute, in Riverside, California. Few of
us did. Me, and Marie, and Pietra. We finished eighth grade, and so we went to Sherman
Institute to go to school. Until we graduated in twelfth grade down there.
NC:
What was that experience like going to Riverside or to Sherman Institute, moving from
the reservation to a larger place?
VC:
[__inaudible at 30:03__] the government. That was in California, and most of the
children went there from California. And others, other people, other tribes. Not too many.
Like Navajo, and Hopi, and lot of northern tribes went there. Few Paiutes, some
Shoshones from Owyhee and Fort Hall. We went there. And then, and there was a college
in Riverside, in the town. City of Riverside. A lot of them people that got through and
graduated from 12th, they went there to go to college. Yeah, lot of the Indians. Most were
California children, went there to college.
NC:
Can you describe what the school was like at Riverside? At the school? What was it like?
I mean, can you tell us of your personal experience?
VC:
Well, it was good. I liked it. Went there four years.
NC:
Did you have to wear uniforms, or…?
VC:
No. They used to, at first they did. They used wear uniforms. But later on, they quit that.
They didn’t put them in the uniforms anymore. But, this was Sherman Institute. After the
second World War, the Navajo veterans got together and they wanted good things to be
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done for their children. So they asked for Sherman Institute. They want that school for
Navajos only. So that’s what happened, later. And then they tried—that’s what they used
that, instead of using Sherman Institute, they call it “Indian School” now. Some people
go there yet, but mostly they’re Navajos and Hopis, those people from the south, down
south, go there now. Not like what it used to be. Lot of the people from other places, they
have to find someplace else to go to school. When the veterans did that, they took the
school only for the Navajos.
NC:
So what did you do after you graduated from Riverside?
VC:
We just stayed home, mostly. Once in a while, I got some kind of a day work job, like
washing, and helping them in the kitchen, where they feed the kids. And other things later
on. Then, I got a job at Portland, Oregon. [Laughter] I went to work there as a
housekeeper. That’s what they had employees doing, was that kind of working. Yeah, I
spent few years in Portland, and then came back to Owyhee. Owyhee was the best!
[Laughter] Then, later on, I didn’t do too much in Owyhee. I done little. Then, when they
built the hospital—which is closed down now—during second World War, it’s where I
worked. Down in the basement as engineer. Because they were taking the boys out, and
they couldn’t find any more boys to work down there. Taking care of boilers; they didn’t
have electricity then. They had that under the hospital, they had boiler room, running the
boilers, and all that stuff. And, it was a man’s job. We had to go out, mow the lawn every
day, shovel snow, and all that stuff. [Laughter] That’s when I worked there for five years.
Until I got sick. I got sick, and had to go to sanitarium to get well. I had tuberculosis. And
they had to break somebody else in, and there was a man, two men come out of Salt Lake
City to check on us that were working down there in the basement, in the boiler room.
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And they said that I was doing a good job. So they said, they want to move me up. They
want me to get higher pay, and they want me to go to Salt Lake to work. [Laughter] And
I told them, “No, I don’t want to go, because I live here and I have a little girl to take care
of.” So I didn’t want to go away from there. [Laughter] So, I turned their job down.
That’s before I got sick, this is. Yeah, I liked that. During the Second World War, they
were strict on payments. We couldn’t go on annual leave, just like they did before. We
just had twenty-day leave. And that’s including sick leave and all that stuff. And so, we
just had twenty days. And then we had to buy war bonds every month. That taken out of
our checks during Second World War. And other things that, whatever the president
requested, that we had to do that because we were under the government. And then, when
I got sick, all these vacation things going, and no raise, and stuff like that. They
considered all that, and paid me for my vacation time that I missed, and sick leave, and
all that stuff. They counted all that, too. Five months after I got sick, after I was in the
sanatarium, they paid me for what I missed out on.
NC:
So after you got well, did you return back to work, or…?
VC:
No. No, I didn’t. Not steady job like one I had at the hospital. And we had to, there was
no electricity. No telephone. Just only two telephones there in Owyhee when I was
working at the hospital. And there was the one at the—that would be three—at the
agency. And at the one at the hospital. Sometimes, we had to answer the telephone, if a
nurse wasn’t there. And then one, there was one down at Miller Creek. At Jessie Little’s
house. That’s in case of emergencies, that they could have you telephone. At Jessie
Little’s, Eleanor Little’s mother. At her house, they had that. And they just had this one
sedan to use, and we deliver messages, or go up and pick up sick people, and stuff. That’s
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when they build the airport out there. And sometimes at nighttime, we had to go deliver
messages out there, when they were building that airport. You couldn’t see anything. Just
dust, real thick. When they—they even worked nighttime. Oh, the dirt! And groundwork
that they were doing disturbed lot of dust. So we went out together, deliver messages to
their boss down there. I don’t know where their people were from who were building that
airport. Sometimes we was kind of scared to go out during the nighttime, so we asked,
let’s pick this place around his—what’s his name? Earl Crum’s dad.
NC:
Jim Crum?
VC:
Yeah, Jim Crum! We got him to take us out when we had to deliver messages or
something like that. And those were the men’s jobs back then.
NC:
What kind of lighting did they use in the hospital at that time? Was it kerosene lamps?
Gas lamps? What type of lighting did they have?
VC:
Oh, you mean like office work?
NC:
No, for lamps. Like, at night. What type of light did they have? Or was it just completely
dark?
VC:
I guess just doctor and the nurses, and did their usual work.
NC:
Uh-huh. But no, what kind of lighting did they have? Did they have candles, or did they
have lamps?
VC:
Oh, lighting? No, they had electricity then. That’s when the power plant came in. Plant
was right across from the old tribal office there. Right next to where they have a, I think
maybe—I haven’t been there for quite a bit of a while. But, that’s where the men were
working until they were under the government, too. We had to run them electricity. And
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that’s why we, we had to [__inaudible at 43:41__] we mow the lawn. I went there to get
my gas, and the oil, and all that stuff. And lawnmower. [Laughter]
NC:
So in terms of doctors, where were the doctors from? Were they government doctors, or
where did they come in from?
VC:
I don’t know where they’re from. I don’t know. But all that area in there is where the
doctors lived. Doctors and their families, and nurses. Nurses’ quarters. Some lived over
there, where they tore that building down, back out there. That’s a gymnasium now,
where some of them lived. And a few of the Indian men. Nurses lived at home. But,
maybe they was under the government, too. I don’t know.
NC:
So what were you saying—?
VC:
And they called it the Western Shoshone Indian Reservation, when they opened that
reservation for the Shoshones. And then, I don’t know how many years after that—I
wasn’t here then, I was in school in Sherman—but, they had councilmen. They had three
councilmen. My brother Roger was one of the councilmen, and Evan Harney, and
[__inaudible at 45:40__], was other councilman. And then, the one worker from up
north… I couldn’t remember the name of the reservation up there… Wasson. His name’s
Tommy Wasson. He was their secretary that worked at the agency there. He was their
secretary. And they decided that, somebody brought it up that they should include the
Paiutes someplace in there, because everything was Western Shoshone. And they didn’t
like that they wanted to be included, I guess, those Paiutes. So when those people were
councilmen—I don’t know if they were elected, or how they were, but anyway, that’s
what happened. And everyone, well, they said, “Well, there’s so many Paiutes here on
the reservation, being born here, and coming here, and getting enrolled, and we should
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change the name from “Western Shoshone” to “Shoshone-Paiute Reservation.” And then,
and so, that’s how it was. But later on, they were coming from someplace in Idaho,
coming into Mountain Home, Raymond and I, and on the, you know, those signs on the
sides of the roads—about the towns, different towns? And had “Duck Valley Indian
Reservation” on there. That’s the first time I saw that change. They changed it from
Western Shoshone. So now—and then some people call that Duck Valley Indian
Reservation, some people call it—hardly anybody uses the Western Shoshone Indian
Reservation anymore. But at the beginning, when they had the reservation going already,
some of the Paiutes were coming in from Pyramid Lake, all over, from over there, they
coming in. Because they had the relatives and friends here in Owyhee. And the
Shoshones tried tell them, “No, you can’t stay here. You’re a Paiute. This reservation is
for the Shoshones. That’s the Paiutes coming in!” [Laughter] Because they said, “There’s
lot of intermarriages.” Of intermarriages. And other tribes, too. Like some Bannocks
from Fort Hall come. But there not as many Bannocks. There’s definitely a few of them,
but it’s mostly Paiutes. And so… That’s how many times it changed its name. So now, I
see on lot of the papers, say “Duck Valley Indian Reservation.” It was only for Western
Shoshone. Got rid of that, gone. I guess those [__inaudible at 49:30__] women at that
time, were Shoshones, I guess they like the Paiute woman! [Laughter] They like ‘em
better, mmhm. Yeah, that’s how come the tribes are all mixed up now.
NC:
So, can you tell us a little more about your brothers and your family up in Owyhee? Who
your brothers were, and—you mentioned one of your brothers.
VC:
Yeah, he was a councilman. He went to school in Riverside, too. Sherman Institute.
There is—how many of us are there, Don? Twelve? Eleven or twelve, but most of them
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died when they were young. The tuberculosis. Lot of people had tuberculosis. That’s
what—I don’t know why, I get to thinking about it sometime. Why did they get
tuberculosis? And I read in different places where cows had tuberculosis. And we always
had milk cow. We drank milk and everything. My dad always had big garden. I still
would like that, too. I don’t know. I guess that, when I went to school down in Sherman
Institute, I got the tuberculosis there. That’s what I think. And my mother and dad were,
were both, had their turns as tribal judges for several years. I don’t know how many years
my dad was a tribal judge. And then he lost his hearing, and then he got the phone—it
runs with battery—hearing aid. He used to hear with it, and he couldn’t hear good in
certain buildings. Something in the building, his battery wouldn’t work good. He was a
judge there for several years. And when he lost his hearing, then my mother took over.
And she was a tribal judge there for, I don’t know how many years, too. Yeah, so finally,
my dad retired. Later on, my mother did too. Other man took over.
NC:
But you didn’t take over, huh?
VC:
[Laughter] No! I’m too dumb! They asked me. They asked me, the council at that time. I
said, “No. I’m forgetful! I will forget things.” So, I didn’t try it.
NC:
Well, I think you would have done pretty good.
VC:
[Laughter]
NC:
So, you mentioned your dad was Bannock, or from Fort Hall. Do you remember what his
name was, your grandpa? You mentioned one of your family members was from Fort
Hall, or a Bannock?
VC:
Oh, that was, would have been my grandpa. Great-grandpa. Yeah. My greatgrandfather’d be, um… His name was, first name was… Papitsi Sambo. Papatsi means
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“older brother.” I didn’t know how to spell it, so… The way I spell it was B-A-B-A-S-CH. That means older brother. That’s among his own people in [__inaudible at 54:23__], I
guess they called him that. That’s what his Indian name was. Papatsi Sambo. But, later
on, these younger people, but I don’t know why, they changed it—they call it, I can’t say
it, Pavittsi. Instead of Papatsi. “Pavitsi.” They spell it with a “p” now. I think that’s what
they use now. Yeah older brother, that meant then. They changed that. And Buck was his
brother. Yeah. That’s who, Captain Buck was his brother. But Captain Buck didn’t go
back to Fort Hall. He stayed in Owyhee. But that was what they named—they use Duck
Valley quite a bit, because there was, on the—they had lots of ducks long time ago.
That’s why they knew that there was food there, and all the edibles, that they could get at
all. So that was what I think it—that’s why they call it Duck Valley.
NC:
So, do you have family in Fort Hall, then? Relatives living in Fort Hall?
VC:
What?
NC:
Do you have relatives in Fort Hall?
VC:
Yes. Now there’s a few of us living.
NC:
What’s their names? Do you know their family names?
VC:
Most of them are cousins, or… My cousin, she went to Sherman Institute. She was in my
same grade. She used to use Papitsi Sambo for her dad’s name. But later on, when the
other people changed it to pavitsi, that’s what they there for the pronunciation. I don’t
know why they changed it, like that. She had several children. Some of them are still
living. And her daughter and her brother, I knew them personally, but those other people,
I don’t know them too well. But they’re still living. And she told me, she told me that
they used to go up there for the festivals. And she told me that, when they were younger,
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and the children were small, her and her husband, they used to drink quite a bit. She said,
“We used to drink all the time and get drunk.” Of course, get their children, everything.
And see, that’s when they took their children away from the welfare. Took her children
away from her. So it’s just that some of them hold that against her, for leaving them. Or
separating. Whatever. But several of them came to her brother’s funeral, and they were
up there. Yeah. But younger people, I don’t know.
[End of recording]
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Western Shoshone Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral histories of Western Shoshone elders collected by the Great Basin Indian Archive.
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories compiled
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Basin Indian Archive, in partnership with Barrick Gold of North America
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
GBIA Oral History Collections
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Great Basin Indian Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
2006-2015
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Norm Cavanaugh
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Vivian Cinnabar
Location
The location of the interview
Elko, NV (Highland Village)
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
DVD and VOB
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:58:42
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
http://humanities.gbcnv.edu/omeka/admin/files/show/556
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Vivian Cinnabar - Oral history (11/24/2009)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history interview with Vivian Cinnabar, Western Shoshone from Duck Valley Reservation (Owyhee, NV), on 11/24/2009
Description
An account of the resource
<p>Vivian Cinnabar is a Western Shoshone who resided at Duck Valley Reservation (Owyhee, NV) the majority of her life. She starts her narrative by speaking about contact and conflict between the Western Shoshone and the emigrants who were coming into the area who started up ranches. She also tells about the formation of the Ruby Valley Treaty of 1863, the Duck Valley reservation and how it was originally set up to be completely Western Shoshone, and Carlin Farms. She also gives an account of her relative Captain Buck. The conversation then turns towards her time attending school. She first started at Owyhee and eventually ended up in Sherman Institute in Riverside, CA. She also describes how many of the people in Owyhee ended up attending Stewart Indian School. Vivian describes her time working as an engineer at the old hospital in Owyhee, and how she contract Tuberculosis (TB).</p>
Video Pending <br /> <a title="Vivian Cinnabar Oral History Transcript" href="/omeka/files/original/bd247cf121495632c0ea8fa76c2674cb.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Read Vivian Cinnabar Oral History Transcript [pdf file]</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Basin Indian Archives
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Great Basin Indian Archives - GBIA 022
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Great Basin Indian Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
11/24/2009 [24 November 2009]; 2009 November 24
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Norm Cavanaugh [interviewer]; James Hedrick [GBIA/VHC]; University of Utah SYLAP [streaming video]; Great Basin College; BARRICK Gold of North America.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Non-commercial scholarly and educational use only. Not to be reproduced or published without express permission. All rights reserved. Great Basin Indian Archives © 2017.
Consent form on file (administrator access only): http://humanities.gbcnv.edu/omeka/admin/items/show/369
Language
A language of the resource
English
Captain Buck
Carlin Farms
Community
Crossroads
Duck Valley Reservation
GBIA
Owyhee
Ruby Valley Treaty 1863
Sherman Institute
Shoshone
Stewart Indian School
Story
TB
Tuberculosis